This transcript of my conversation with my daughters has been edited for length, clarity, and many uses of the word “like” – of which there are still almost 50 occurrences. Here’s a key to the abbreviations:

FAD = me, Feminist Asian Dad. 

JJ = my older daughter, a college sophomore. I call her JJ here because in Mandarin Chinese, 姐姐 (Jiě Jie) means “big sister.” 

MM = my younger daughter, a high school junior. I call her MM here because 妹妹 (Mèi Mei) means “little sister.” 

WARNING: Major spoilers for the Netflix movie KPop Demon Hunters follow.

FAD: Let me start by welcoming MM to the blog! JJ has been on the blog a few times before, in convos we had about the films She Said and The Marvels and MSNBC anchor Ali Vitali’s book Electable. I’ll begin with MM. You’re not a K-pop or K-drama fan. Why do you like KPop Demon Hunters so much?

MM: A lot of why I don’t like K-pop is that I like knowing what songs are about and singing along to them. It’s really hard if everything is in Korean. But this movie has a banger soundtrack! The songs are primarily in English. They’re super catchy and fun to listen to, and they actually tell a story. If you look at the lyrics, the music, and the motifs, they all serve their point [in the story development]. I also like the attention to detail; when we saw the different hunters from different generations, it showed me that someone cared so much that they put in that kind of attention to detail. 

FAD: I hear you saying that even though you’re not a K-pop fan, you really liked this film because of the music, in part because it’s mostly in English. And you also liked that the filmmakers gave a lot of attention to detail in their world-building.

MM: Yeah.

JJ: MM, can I comment on something I heard you say? You said you were initially intrigued by this movie because of an edit you saw. I assume this was a fan edit. I assume this was a ship edit. So am I correct in assuming the pipeline from “the boys are hot” to “this is a really well-put-together movie,” and “I really relate to the main characters,” and “I love the music” – that pipeline is alive and real?

MM: Oh, it’s very alive and very real! It’s not just me who thinks that they were hot, and I think the movie is self-aware about it. Like, when Rumi meets Jinu; there’s the slow-motion and the song when they bump into each other. And later on, there’s the wrist catch. That’s very representative of K-drama romance.

JJ: Do you feel like it’s in some ways representation for Asian American girls like you, who want to see protagonists that look like them, getting to be with men that you are attracted to?

MM: I think it doesn’t just resonate with Asian girls, because the way that the romance plays out, and the way the characters experience the world around them, feel very relatable to a teen girl audience. 

FAD: JJ, you’re not a huge K-pop fan, but you’re not the anti-fan that MM has been. Why did you like KPop Demon Hunters?

JJ: Well, a brain worm is a brain worm. 

FAD: If something’s catchy, it’s catchy.

JJ: Yes. I watched the movie the first time, and I was like, “That was okay, pretty formulaic.” The second time, I was more familiar with the music, so I was more invested in the story. Now I definitely love the music, and it’s been on “Repeat” in my car.

FAD: What’s your favorite song from the film? 

JJ: “How It’s Done,” because of the singular line, “Heels, nails – ”

ALL THREE OF US: “ – blade, mascara, fit check for my napalm era!”

FAD: That’s a great line.

MM: I love that line, too.

FAD: MM, what’s your favorite song?

MM: It’s also “How It’s Done.” [During the song] every time they kill a demon, you can see from outside the plane that every window lights up with a different color – on the beat! And when they pull out their weapons for the first time, Zoey’s actually smiling; it’s such a baddie moment. Then they fall out of the plane, singing and doing their makeup while they’re falling. It’s so funny. And again, the songs are really good, but they’re good in the context of the musical – they make sense within the musical. Another good example is “Soda Pop.” It’s such a catchy, cheesy, kind of cringey brain worm. But you realize they’re like, “We want to drink up your souls.” And then “Your Idol” is such a good villain song where the boys sing that they’re gonna steal your souls, and they’re gonna make it hot.

FAD: MM, you were talking about how there’s so much attention to detail, and you caught something I didn’t catch the first time I saw the movie. During “Your Idol,” there’s a chant in the background in Latin, Dies irae, meaning “day of wrath.”

JJ: It’s from a Catholic funeral mass.

MM: It’s just so perfect.

FAD: Switching gears – why do you think the movie has blown up like it has, all over the world?

MM: This movie is unapologetically cringe. It does a great job of being fun. It also has a great balance of darker themes to keep adults interested. Like literally, “Kill me, Mom.” [Rumi says essentially this to the woman who raised her, Celine.] But at the same time, it’s so bright and colorful and fun to watch. It unashamedly commits to the aesthetic, to the cultural references, and the themes, too. And everyone online is speculating: “What happened to Jinu? Is he dead? And what exactly happened to Rumi’s mom?” Part of the fun is the unanswered questions.

FAD: The mysteries that remain. 

MM: Yeah, when are we gonna get answers to these questions? I need to know!

FAD: In terms of storytelling, there’s a lot left for people to talk about. It’s one of those films that people talk about afterwards.

MM: I appreciate how they didn’t spoil in the trailers that Rumi was part demon. There’s so many trailers where I feel like I already watched the movie. But they didn’t spoil [Rumi’s secret] in the trailers, so when Rumi’s singing about how she’s part demon, I audibly gasped! I had assumed they would spoil [something like that] in the trailer, but they didn’t. I was like, “OK, respect!”

FAD: How about you, JJ? What’s your theory as to why the movie has become so big?

JJ: I think KPop Demon Hunters is all about virality. It’s a movie whose plot is about virality, but it is also, as an IP [Intellectual Property], explicitly designed and marketed to go viral, especially in our TikTok age.

FAD: What do you mean by virality?

JJ: I mean virality in terms of the widespread cultural awareness that we’re seeing it reach, specifically in a digital landscape. 

FAD: There’s a lot of repeatable moments for online sharing; is that what you’re saying? 

JJ: There’s a lot of repeatable moments. Just like the fans in the movie, we’re shipping characters, and we’re doing the dances on TikTok that we see the characters do in their movie version of TikTok. We’re going to buy and wear the merch for the different groups, just like we see the fans in the movie doing. When I was watching the movie the first time, I said, “Rumi’s hair was made to sell dolls!” And so I feel like everything is designed with that lens in mind. I’m sorry; I’m on a rant.

FAD: Keep going!

JJ: Even down to the fact that there are in-movie music videos. The movie is basically like a concept album video where we get to see behind the scenes. I say concept album in the flavor of …

FAD: … Beyoncé? 

JJ: Well, the example that keeps coming up in my head is Janelle Monae’s Dirty Computer, how that was turned into an ”emotion picture.” KPop Demon Hunters is like an album that’s been turned into a movie based around these songs, and we get to see behind the scenes of the album’s creation in the movie. We see Rumi and Zoey and Mira’s creation of the music, which is fictionalized, and that becomes literalized during the credits when we see [popular real-life K-pop group] TWICE in the recording studio. It’s a movie in conversation with how things get made. 

MM: This movie is aware of the digital space. It’s where K-pop culture is. I’ve lost track of how many edits I’ve seen where everyone is just cringing at themselves: “I love ‘Your Idol’ so much, my soul would be gone.” And I think it’s just so fun to have that conversation around the movie. But yeah, I think this is a movie that’s definitely aware of Korean culture and K-pop culture.

JJ: I’m thinking about the moment where they have a line about 10,000 fans screaming and sounding scary. And then immediately they cut to the security guards who are like, “No, there’s actually 10,000 fans screaming and sounding scary.” And then they take a photo! I thought it was also interesting that [the HUNTR/X members] are kind of perfect K-pop stars, because they can be infinitely vulnerable and perfectly flawed. You wouldn’t, I don’t think, see a real-life K-pop group release a really raw, gritty backstory to their music, where they’re talking about how they’re struggling and crying. It’s the same with digital K-pop groups like MAVE. When you have digital characters, you don’t need idols to be on diets or have media training.

MM: I saw a lot of people talking about how they can eat as much food as they want. If this were real-life, there’d be a whole controversy about it. I think a lot of that just boils down to the fact that it’s a movie for kids. So of course, it’s a more idealized Korea where HUNTR/X can just kill [the equivalent of] BTS. Someone said that it’s like TWICE showed up to a BTS concert, killed BTS, started floating, and then had a TWICE concert.

JJ: I do think it sanitizes the realities of being an idol and having to go through an intense and traumatizing industry in the service of relatability. If you really portray what it’s really like to be an idol, most people would be like, that sounds rough and scary, and I don’t want to go through that. 

MM: I think there’s no wrong or right answer. What you’re talking about is totally valid. But they’re not trying to create a gritty documentary.

JJ: I think it’s okay that you don’t want to watch a lot of suffering. But I do think it’s important to think about what kind of harm that perpetuates for real-life people, real-life idols, and the people who follow them.

FAD: You also mentioned Americanization as a reason the movie is popular.

JJ: It’s like [global girl group] KATSEYE, which has gotten really big recently. It’s K-pop made for an American audience, or at least a “globalized” audience.

FAD: Let me get your feelings about characters. MM, which character do you feel is most like you?

MM: My whole friend group sat around and was like, “You’re the tiger, and you’re Mira, and I’m Zoey.” 

FAD: Why are you Zoey? 

MM: I’m so Zoey-coded. The film does a great job of giving the characters distinct personalities, enough that you can get their struggles. So at the end, when you hear the evil voices [in Mira’s and Zoey’s ears], you’re like, “Oh, this makes sense why they’re falling for that.” The movie did enough building for you to understand how they got to that point. You know them well enough that you know their struggles and who they are as people. 

FAD: But Zoey –

MM: I am very Zoey-coded because she’s from somewhere really close [Burbank]. I also just think her personality and her love of watching 700 two-second videos about turtles is very me. Even her insecurities, like [her fear of] being too much and not enough. Why did that have to hit so hard? 

FAD: JJ, which character do you feel is most like you?

JJ: Definitely Mira. Wait, MM, why do people think I’m Mira? 

MM: Because you have a good scowl face.

JJ: I get her “I’m not gonna take any sass from anyone.” Kind of her outcast-but-badass vibe. 

MM: And her outfits were really cute the whole time. I think you should dress more like her, JJ! I think you’ll get a lot more done with your life. Can I also talk about the fashion? The fashion of this movie was so detailed! I’m often surrounded by Korean fashion, and it feels so accurate. And the fits are super cute! Their nails say “Kill Saja”and they have, like, the eyeliner, and they’re wearing leather. I love the movie for it, because the creators really said, “Let’s add really good costumes to it.” It’s just one more layer of what makes the movie so authentic and so good. 

FAD: What did you want to say, JJ?

JJ: I was going to say a lot of teen and young adult media or novels have problematic representations of men and so I wanted to just take a moment –

FAD: Like, in real-life, a male love interest like Jinu would not be the kind of person –

MM: Yeah, men are like, “Why do you [girls] like [problematic guys] in movies, but you don’t in real-life?” And girls are like, “Obviously, we don’t like it in real-life. We just think that he’s hot.” It’s fantasy; it’s fiction.

JJ: Aside from being, you know, a mass murderer. “Missing person reports have tripled” [said the newscast in the movie]. Jinu’s using a lot of really manipulative tactics and language, and taking advantage of Rumi, but by having this heroic death in the end, he’s set up as a hero. And they’re probably gonna bring him back for a sequel because of the fan demand. But when you talk to guys like that in real life, it always leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

MM: Teen girls watch it, and they know he’s trash, but he looked really good. I’ve read so many YA books where you read it and it’s like, “Oh my goodness, this guy, he sucks. But you know what? It’s kind of hot.” I feel like a lot of movies cheat you out of a real redemption arc. They just die and everything’s okay. It’s such a trope. I knew when I first saw Jinu, “Oh, he’s gonna die. No way he’s surviving this movie.” 

JJ: It’s like Kylo Ren and Rey [in the Star Wars movies]. Please stop putting our main girlies with lots of character development and trauma and whatnot, stop putting them with mass murderers! Can we redeem people other than mass murderers?

MM: Can we redeem people in a way that’s not them dying? I hope, if they bring Jinu back, they’ll actually have him confront his actions. I have hope! I’m a hopeful woman.

JJ: No, they should give Rumi an actually stable, solid guy!

MM: But it’s fantasy, JJ! She’s a demon slayer! 

JJ: He also, like, manipulated her!! Don’t you think she deserves better?! Hot and kind and respectful!! 

MM: But she’s annoying!!!

JJ: Are you saying she deserves a manipulator because she’s annoying?!! That’s sooo girls supporting girls!!!

MM: I always think that if there’s a movie with one girl who’s annoying, I’m like,“Girl, let’s kill her off.” If a character is annoying, and they die, no one loses!

FAD: And wow, we’ll go ahead and finish there! Thank you both for being part of the blog; you both had good thoughts, and I really appreciate it. Love you both!