My family enjoyed seeing The Marvels, and my 17-year-old daughter and I chatted about it quite a bit afterward. In the vein of our previous posts here, where we together reviewed the film She Said and then NBC correspondent Ali Vitali’s book Electable, here’s a transcripted rendition of our convo, edited for length and clarity. I’m FAD (Feminist Asian Dad) and my daughter is denoted by JJ for the Chinese term for big sister, 姐姐 (Pinyin: jiĕ jie). Be warned, major spoilers ahead.

FAD: What did you like about The Marvels?

JJ: It was great to see three women who are powerful but also emotionally sensitive and connected to each other. I loved all the quips; there were genuinely moments where I laughed out loud. And it was refreshingly free of the toxic masculinity jokes you find in traditional superhero movies.

FAD: LIke what?

JJ: Like masculine posturing related to power. In this movie, we had people who were apologizing to one another and being open with their feelings, like Kamala being really open with her excitement. I felt like the girls are here and having feelings, which is my own experience.

FAD: That makes me think of the end of Avengers: Endgame, where Thor gets on the ship with the Guardians of the Galaxy and says, “The Asgardians of the galaxy,” and he and Star-Lord have this back and forth about who’s really in charge.

JJ: Yeah, that scene makes fun of men who are trying to one up one another, but it doesn’t go so far as to subvert those standards. There is still a lot of that posturing in superhero movies. 

FAD: It’s also the subtext when Thor says in Endgame to Captain America, “You have the little one,” meaning the hammer Mjolinir, while he takes the axe Stormbreaker, which is bigger.

JJ: I don’t necessarily need those jokes. I found the ones in this movie funny and even culturally specific. Like that one moment where they’re on the ship and Kamala’s brother is praying, and Nick Fury tells him to keep going. Normally you kind of see culture get made fun of.

FAD: That was one of the beautiful things about the Ms. Marvel TV series. It was very specific, in terms of this being a devoutly religious Muslim family from Pakistan. Kamala’s brother Aamir is especially religious, and in the TV series, one of Kamala’s best friends, Nakia, wears a hijab. That sense of devotion carries through in this movie and culminates in Kamala’s prayer, “Bismillah,” as the plot nears its climax.

JJ: All that surprised me, because I expected the movie to just insert Kamala into the broader MCU story, but the filmmakers actually brought in her family and culture a lot. And they’re even bigger in the movie because Kamala and her family are the filter through which we see the film. They’re the stand-ins for the average viewer as they experience confusion and the newness of things. Normally you get that through the lens of someone who is more stereotypically relatable, like someone white.

FAD: So the women being different than a typical superhero movie, and the honoring of culture, those are the things that you liked the most?

JJ: Those are the things that made me say, “Oh, this is fun.” There were somber things going on, like Carol’s narrative about her past and the stuff with the Kree. But those things actually made it fun. Like when it was just the three of them being themselves when they’re practicing switching – tossing the ball and double-dutch jump roping – they were having fun, and there was no pretense.

FAD: I was struck by what Carol was wearing. At one point it’s red gym shorts that don’t match whatever shirt she had on. She doesn’t care. And they show up at the singing planet and she’s wearing blue jeans. It’s just very normal. 

JJ: It’s very in tune with the experiences of femme-presenting people in the world; we get home, and we’re just chilling. If you look at early Marvel films, that’s something we never would have seen from female characters.

FAD: They’re all either glammed up or in action suits. 

JJ: There’s also the scene with Valkyrie in the pant suit, where she kisses Carol on the cheek. You said there was something deleted?

FAD: I read on Screen Rant something about the script having earlier had a line between Valkyrie and Carol, “We’re better as just friends.” 

JJ: When Valkyrie popped onto the screen in that suit, I thought, “That’s really queer coded.” And she’s already confirmed to be bisexual canonically.

FAD: One of those things where some people won’t notice it, but like “if you know, you know.”

JJ: It’s more than just an allusion, so it’s hard to refute that it’s accidental.

FAD: I think of Faustus, the African American-presenting member of the Eternals. He clearly had a husband. And in the comics, America Chavez is also bi, though we haven’t seen it yet in the MCU. We do know she has two moms. I also wish the film had explored more of Monica’s background.

JJ: I did feel like Monica was the least fleshed out of the three. I wish they had been able to spend more of the film focused on the emotional arc with her and Carol. I mean, the film was packed into a very short amount of chronological time, but I think it would have been really nice to see more of how they’re navigating that relationship. And especially at the end, when they’re back in Louisiana, moving Carol’s stuff into Monica’s house, I felt like it was too soon. I wish the movie had placed more stake in losing Monica.

FAD: It would have felt different if it were Kamala or Carol who made the sacrifice. But they at least acknowledge when they’re sitting in the plane that they miss Monica and hope that she’ll be back.

JJ: I just wish her character felt less disposable. 

FAD: I like Nick Fury’s line, “Black girl magic!” 

JJ: Knowing that the director of this film is African American.

FAD: I was hoping that Kamala would get to do more dancing and singing with the people on the singing planet. That felt very Bollywood. So where do you think they should take the stories from here?

JJ: Honestly, I feel like I’m okay with this being the end. Not because I don’t enjoy the characters, and I know they have the unfinished storyline with Monica. But I almost wish we had gotten the happy ending, with them back with their families. I am really interested to see what happens with Kamala’s new team. It was really fun to see her show up at Kate Bishop’s apartment. It would be cool to see more of these superheroes navigating the world as young adults. That would definitely resonate with my own experiences, and in many ways, that’s what’s so relatable about Kamala. She’s a high schooler, and she’s navigating the ability to save the world.

FAD: I was listening to the Women of Marvel podcast yesterday, and they were saying that Kamala Khan brings a sort of Peter Parker energy to the movie. 

JJ: Oh, absolutely.

FAD: They’re both still in high school. And she’s having a hard time being both student and superhero.

JJ: It would be nice if we got more of that kind of relatable humanity, that confusion of where you fit in with the world.

FAD: Well, there’s a lot that can be mined from this film, but for today, we’ll call it here. Thanks for chatting with me!